Curse

faraaz · Jan 29, 2009, 06:03 AM // 06:03

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Originally Posted by Raging Apes

The only thing going for a warrior is his !@#$ing +20 to armor?

And even that can be made up for by other means, as you can probly tell already.

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When I go into a fight, everything freaking blows me off

Thats because the AI is programmed to seek out low AL targets first. Most of the time its a case of you heading for their backline + their frontline heading for your backline. Kill off the monks, and then mop up the rest.

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ultimately it just snowsballs into "lol noob" "no u" "y would u use that lol gtfo" and things.

That's because most of Guru is populated by bitter people, most of who dont play GW anymore but feel the need to come by and troll anyway.

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I feel like I've wasted way too much time trying to pursue something that is meaningless, while I get to watch my fiancee walk into a group of mobs, blink, and see everything die.

That's partly because the Proph campaign is designed that way. Really really boring and really really slow. (Watch as I get flamed by all the 2005 on players for dissing their favorite campaign)

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Is there nothing redeeming?

They're kinda sorta good in PvP. That's about it. They're useless in PvE.

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And yes, thanks guys, I know I'm a noob, and I know, "LOL WAMMO HAHA" flame me all you want if that's what you do, I'm already extremely jaded so what's a few more jabs to make my day even better? :/

Lol I won't flame you. You are like the first sane poster I've seen on this forum

fenix · Jan 29, 2009, 06:06 AM // 06:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Empress Amarox

Who are you to say I'm not being helpful..?

The bars that do "shit damage" incidentally kill mobs with like what, 2 hits? Yeah, they're farming builds. So what?

Did I miss the point that the OP thought wars did shit damage and wanted a derv because their fiancee could just walk up and kill mobs with a blink? Because, that's what I read, and that's why I responded how I did.

Be less of a troll tbh.

Exactly my point, how are solo farming builds meant to help with playing a good warrior? They don't, at all. In a team situation they are totally useless, and furthermore only work vs certain specific mobs. If you're doing ANYTHING in the game other than farming, the bars are complete trash. If you want big damage on a warrior, you don't bring a bunch of defense, NOR do you bring Hundred Blades.

Here are some options;

Earthshaker, Yeti Smash, Whirlwind Attack
Dragon Slash, etc etc
Primal Rage, Dismember, Body Blow, Agonizing (tears everything apart in PvE)

Almost any other bar is ineffective as it doesn't offer anything better than the bars above. And the Primal Rage bar is only valid since the last update. So yeah, Earthshaker or Dragon Slash if you want to do big damage properly. Nothing else is as effective (especially Hundred Blades) so is not worth taking.

Vir Leto · Jan 29, 2009, 09:33 AM // 09:33

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Originally Posted by blue.rellik

Tyrael_Eveningsong, please stop talking. Seriously, it's for your own benefit.

Acctualy you should be the one to stop talking. Tyrael is right on all accounts.
Get it right Eviscerate = PVP skill mostly, way too limited for PVE(Cleave + Dismember is more spammable, versatile = way better as Tyrael has pointed out). Evis is in no way the best elite axe for pve, Cleave and Tripple Chop are superior.

Geez it's amazing how some people give bad advice and then when someone politely and throughly explains the error they go like "whatever, shut up".

blue.rellik · Jan 29, 2009, 11:02 AM // 11:02

Lemme find this huge post from ages ago on why Triple Chop is terribaed. Dismember is one of the most overrated PvE skills in the game

hai

Cleave and Dismember spam is terribaed because it rapes your adrenaline pool. And it's way less DPS than a DSlasher

bungusmaximus · Jan 29, 2009, 11:16 AM // 11:16

Triple chop is fine, there's beauty such as splinter weapon that can make it rape face, if you must play axe that is. I find sword and hammer builds to be more optimal for PvE.

But then, with newer stuff such as hundred blades and whirlwind attack triple might be somewhat outdated, but it's certainly not bad imho. It does a nice bunch of + damage all by itself even if you hit only one foe.

I don't find eviscerate to be very good in pve either, I think it kindsa depends on style.

Vir Leto · Jan 29, 2009, 11:32 AM // 11:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue.rellik

Lemme find this huge post from ages ago on why Triple Chop is terribaed. Dismember is one of the most overrated PvE skills in the game

hai

Cleave and Dismember spam is terribaed because it rapes your adrenaline pool. And it's way less DPS than a DSlasher

Ok on tripple chop:

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10326347
http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:W/...e_Chop_Warrior

These pages say hi!

Now all i see in your link is you saying triple chop is bad, well ofcourse it is if you don't know how to play with it, but if you do, it can deal immense aoe dmg with cyclone and splintter weapon. Now please compar a link in which you say one skill is bad with 2 links in which alot of people say it is good. I fail to see how you > rest of people.

How the hell did you jump to comparing Cleave + Dismember to Dlsash. The discussion was Eviscerat vs Cleave + Dismember. If you want to bring up the adren issue, please read Tyrael's post again and try to understand what he explains, he covers that part very well aswell.
Clearly you have no ideea of what you are talking about and now you'r just throwing builds in the discussion and see if you get something right.

fatelord · Jan 29, 2009, 12:23 PM // 12:23

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Originally Posted by faraaz

They're kinda sorta good in PvP. That's about it. They're useless in PvE.

A Scythe warrior in PVE deals ungodly amounts of damage ..hardly useless ..

Warrior's endurance
flail
power attack
protector's strike/counterattack
victorious sweep
aura of the holy might
save yourselves
res signet

This will deal above 120 damage every swing plus it can use Save yourselves ....

blue.rellik · Jan 29, 2009, 12:55 PM // 12:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vir Leto

Ok on tripple chop:

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10326347
http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:W/...e_Chop_Warrior

These pages say hi!

First that doesn't refute anything I said at all

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Now all i see in your link is you saying triple chop is bad, well ofcourse it is if you don't know how to play with it, but if you do, it can deal immense aoe dmg with cyclone and splintter weapon.

This proves that you didn't read my link at all. God Marty, that TC build is terrible, bring splinter weapon on someone else that doesn't have to split their attributes for it. Also read this part

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-You'll need a zealous axe or you'll run out of energy in longer fights.
-When using this build, keep in mind it's only efficient if you can hit ~3+ enemies with the AoE skills, or otherwise your elite is a 10 recharge Power Attack
. Also, you'll run out of energy quickly because the zealous won't return enough energy per AoE swing. So, if you know there aren't going to be many big groups or that you won't be able to ball them up, this build isn't going to work too well.
-Dismember is there just for single target damage, for when theres one foe left or you need to kill one in particular (monks, bosses, etc), you can swap it for any attack you want, or for an interrupt or utility.
-I like Splinter Weapon because it fits in with the idea of the build, but it's better if you have a Ritualist cast it on you. If you don't mind dropping your Strength down below 9 (you probably won't meet the shield req), you can put more points into Channeling.

Ask him who it was that originally pointed out that TC is an elite Power-attack if you're not hitting lots of foes. *hint hint* Me

Can you honestly say that you consistently hit 3 people all the time. Tell the truth. Sure it CAN be 'omfgawsum!' but then again it CAN be 'lol wut?'

Because if you can't then you just used an elite power-attack.

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Now please compar a link in which you say one skill is bad with 2 links in which alot of people say it is good. I fail to see how you > rest of people.

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How the hell did you jump to comparing Cleave + Dismember to Dlsash. The discussion was Eviscerat vs Cleave + Dismember. If you want to bring up the adren issue, please read Tyrael's post again and try to understand what he explains, he covers that part very well aswell.
Clearly you have no ideea of what you are talking about and now you'r just throwing builds in the discussion and see if you get something right.

Cleave is DPS. DSlash is DPS. Dslash craps all over Cleave.

And I read Tyreal's post and I /facepalm so hard that I actually had to rub it afterwards because it hurt that much. He was using a scenario where he plays like a complete and utter idiot. I don't play like an idiot

Improvavel · Jan 29, 2009, 01:01 PM // 13:01

The difference between [[Cleave]+[[dismember] versus [[Eviscerate] is 2 swings and 1 skill slot.

With skills like [[Enraging charge], [[For great justice] and [[Dark fury] the diference might not be that much. For softer mobs guess [[cleave] is the main option, for harder ones [[eviscerate] for the skill slot.

Last, [[Earth shaker] pwns every other warrior and melee character in PvE.

hoovehand · Jan 29, 2009, 01:11 PM // 13:11

you already have cyclone axe and whirlwind attack on your bar, why would you take triple chop to further increase your aoe dps by a tiny amount? you might aswell go secondary ele and take savannah heat.

triple chop needs big changes to make it viable, imo it should hit single target 3 times to actually do something relevant to the name...

Vir Leto · Jan 29, 2009, 01:13 PM // 13:13

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Originally Posted by blue.rellik

First that doesn't refute anything I said at all

This proves that you didn't read my link at all. God Marty, that TC build is terrible, bring splinter weapon on someone else that doesn't have to split their attributes for it. Also read this part

Ask him who it was that originally pointed out that TC is an elite Power-attack if you're not hitting lots of foes. *hint hint* Me

Can you honestly say that you consistently hit 3 people all the time. Tell the truth. Sure it CAN be 'omfgawsum!' but then again it CAN be 'lol wut?'

Because if you can't then you just used an elite power-attack.

Cleave is DPS. DSlash is DPS. Dslash craps all over Cleave.

And I read Tyreal's post and I /facepalm so hard that I actually had to rub it afterwards because it hurt that much. He was using a scenario where he plays like a complete and utter idiot. I don't play like an idiot

First of all the points wasn't the splintter on warrior which I agree with you is bad, some support can carry that. The ideea is that it has alot more potential in damage and in adren gain then an Eviscerate that has 8 adren cost, in PVE ofcourse. The point is to use it right, and yes if you know how to position yourself and how to bodyblock, etc ... you can get to hit 3 foes without a problem, sure it requires more awarness and attention then spaming a single dps skill but hey, nobody said everything is easy.

I did read your link, but did you read mine? It certanly seemes not, if you did you would see alot of very experience and good players saying that Triple Chop is a very good skill, not great but very good. While Eviscerate is crap and I dare you to show me an Eviscerate build ever accepted by more then a few stubborn persons as a very good build in PVE.

Secondly I never ever said anything or made any comparison between Dslash and Cleave, you are the one trying to derail this discussion into that to make yourself look like you know something. What the discussion was based upon and what you are trying to say is that Eviscerate is better then Cleave + Dismember in PVE, which is crap and you should know it if you are as good as you say you are. Stop trying to turn the attention of everyone from your idiotical initial post to Dslash. Nobody but you mentioned Dslash and you are the only one trying to make a comparsion between Dslash and Cleave, which is like comparing apples to oranges.

qvtkc · Jan 29, 2009, 01:17 PM // 13:17

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Originally Posted by Tyrael_Eveningsong

[[[email protected]] + [[[email protected]] vs. [[[email protected]] is pretty simple to justify.

So tell me when you take Eviscerate do you always leave an empty slot next to it? No you don't. While two skills can provide more damage than one skill alone, Eviscerate plus another skill would outdamage Cleave + Dismember.

Vir Leto · Jan 29, 2009, 01:23 PM // 13:23

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Originally Posted by Improvavel

The difference between [[Cleave]+[[dismember] versus [[Eviscerate] is 2 swings and 1 skill slot.

With skills like [[Enraging charge], [[For great justice] and [[Dark fury] the diference might not be that much. For softer mobs guess [[cleave] is the main option, for harder ones [[eviscerate] for the skill slot.

Last, [[Earth shaker] pwns every other warrior and melee character in PvE.

I'm sorry to say but that is not the difference. The difference is how much can you spam Cleave 4adren + dismember 5 adren (which charge at the same time) vs Eviscerate 8 adren. Not even mentioning the fact that, as pointed out earlier, you may want to focus some targets with a deep wound which to be honest eviscerate charges way to slow to be able to change targets as fast as you do with dismember. When discussing this consider the adren requriments not only the bar skill compression. I cba to explain more, please read Tyrael's post.

Vir Leto · Jan 29, 2009, 01:27 PM // 13:27

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Originally Posted by qvtkc

So tell me when you take Eviscerate do you always leave an empty slot next to it? No you don't. While two skills can provide more damage than one skill alone, Eviscerate plus another skill would outdamage Cleave + Dismember.

Ok, i'll go along with this for the sake of the discussion.

What adren skill would you put on that empty skill slot in addition to Eviscerate to outdamage Cleave + dismember and have the versatility of deep wounding faster?

Improvavel · Jan 29, 2009, 02:19 PM // 14:19

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Originally Posted by Vir Leto

I'm sorry to say but that is not the difference. The difference is how much can you spam Cleave 4adren + dismember 5 adren (which charge at the same time) vs Eviscerate 8 adren.

You still need to swing 7 times to apply cleave+dismember vs 9 times to apply dismember.

To charge cleave (not considering damage taken) you need to hit 4 times. Then you cleave. You have 4 adrenaline left on dismember, swing once more, charge dismember, then hit with dismember for a total of 7 swings.

So yes, cleave+dismember goes faster than eviscerate, but after you do eviscerate you can follow with [[executioner's strike]. [[Eviscerate]+[[executioner's strike] beats [[cleave]+[[dismember] in damage, hence why it requires more adrenaline.

So, what you face is the same situation of [[Moebius strike]+[[Death blossom] sins - against soft mobs isn't as good as against tougher mobs because you will be hardly press to have a target that last long enough for moebius.

But again, [[Enraging charge]+[[for great justice] net you 8 adrenaline. At that point the Eviscerate axe beats the cleaver. Further adrenaline can be recouped with [[whirlwind attack] or [[cyclone axe].

So its not a clear win either way.

I'm not saying Eviscerate is better than cleave - I'm saying that cleave might not be better than eviscerate. It all depends on the situation.

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Originally Posted by Vir Leto

What adren skill would you put on that empty skill slot in addition to Eviscerate to outdamage Cleave + dismember and have the versatility of deep wounding faster?

That's why cleave+dismember are worth too. While they don't as much damage, they are more versatile.

On the other hand, [[sundering weapon](from yourself or rit)+[[body blow] or [[weaken armor](from necro)+[[body blow] are interesting.

blue.rellik · Jan 29, 2009, 03:03 PM // 15:03

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Originally Posted by Vir Leto

First of all the points wasn't the splintter on warrior which I agree with you is bad, some support can carry that. The ideea is that it has alot more potential in damage and in adren gain then an Eviscerate that has 8 adren cost, in PVE ofcourse. The point is to use it right, and yes if you know how to position yourself and how to bodyblock, etc ... you can get to hit 3 foes without a problem, sure it requires more awarness and attention then spaming a single dps skill but hey, nobody said everything is easy.

Triple Chop must consistently hit 3+ people otherwise your DPS is pitiful. That is not opinion, this is basic fact.

In HM (NM doesn't matter because it's easy 90% of the time), can you honestly say that you can easily hold aggro of 3+ enemies most of the time

If you can then make a video of it and post it on youtube, you'll be the envy of every PvE warrior

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I did read your link, but did you read mine? It certanly seemes not, if you did you would see alot of very experience and good players saying that Triple Chop is a very good skill, not great but very good. While Eviscerate is crap and I dare you to show me an Eviscerate build ever accepted by more then a few stubborn persons as a very good build in PVE.

People are stupid. That is fact. Just because a sub-par build was accepted does not mean it's awesome. A 3-chop build's whole gimmick is the aoe, if you're not hitting lots of guys at once then you're being sub-bar.

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Secondly I never ever said anything or made any comparison between Dslash and Cleave, you are the one trying to derail this discussion into that to make yourself look like you know something. What the discussion was based upon and what you are trying to say is that Eviscerate is better then Cleave + Dismember in PVE, which is crap and you should know it if you are as good as you say you are. Stop trying to turn the attention of everyone from your idiotical initial post to Dslash. Nobody but you mentioned Dslash and you are the only one trying to make a comparsion between Dslash and Cleave, which is like comparing apples to oranges.

/facepalm

Cleave is DPS. 3-chop is aoe. Cleave is beaten by DSlash is DPS, 3-chop is crap if not hitting 3+ foes

Cleave + Dismember is terribaed because it owns your adrenaline. Tyreal knows little because spamming Dismember and Cleave means your other adrenaline skills build up either incredibly slowly or not at all.

Oh Eviscerate + Body Blow > Dismember + Cleave in terms of damage AND deep wound spreading

MegaVolti · Jan 29, 2009, 03:05 PM // 15:05

You can also try this one:
http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:W/D_Enduring_Scythe

That will show your little Dervish friend how a real man handles a scythe

beats almost all Dervish builds out there.

Vir Leto · Jan 29, 2009, 03:25 PM // 15:25

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Originally Posted by blue.rellik

Triple Chop must consistently hit 3+ people otherwise your DPS is pitiful. That is not opinion, this is basic fact.

In HM (NM doesn't matter because it's easy 90% of the time), can you honestly say that you can easily hold aggro of 3+ enemies most of the time

If you can then make a video of it and post it on youtube, you'll be the envy of every PvE warrior

People are stupid. That is fact. Just because a sub-par build was accepted does not mean it's awesome. A 3-chop build's whole gimmick is the aoe, if you're not hitting lots of guys at once then you're being sub-bar.

/facepalm

Cleave is DPS. 3-chop is aoe. Cleave is beaten by DSlash is DPS, 3-chop is crap if not hitting 3+ foes

Cleave + Dismember is terribaed because it owns your adrenaline. Tyreal knows little because spamming Dismember and Cleave means your other adrenaline skills build up either incredibly slowly or not at all.

Oh Eviscerate + Body Blow > Dismember + Cleave in terms of damage AND deep wound spreading

Roflmao, you mean to tell me that an 8aden is better at spreading deep wond then a 5aden, unbelievable, guess 5>8 in your math

))))))

If you like bringing other skills to discussion you can just as easily and recomended bring Body Bow to Cleave+Dismember and then I ask you, all that Evis does for you is compress the bar a little and gimp your pressure. Spiking is mainly for PVP. Evis is non spammable, for 8 aden you have alot to do untill it recharges.

Stop jumping from axe to swords, I am not talking about Dslash nor comparing it to cleave. Axe =/= Swords.

blue.rellik · Jan 29, 2009, 03:32 PM // 15:32

At least you dropped the whole deal about triple chop (does that mean you know that it's terrible?)

Eviscerate and Body Blow both cause deep wound in that combo. Does Cleave cause deep wound?

Also nice to see that you realize that cleave seriously gimps your adrenaline build-up

Vir Leto · Jan 29, 2009, 03:41 PM // 15:41

I dropped discussing tripple chop because it is clear we have different oppinions, no point in repeating same thing over and over again if you don't want to understand.

Again, please read Tyrael's post he explains the adren very well. Cleave doesn't gimp it at all.

Eviscerate + Body Blow this is a combo? .. roflmao ... keep them coming mate I must admit this stupid statements make a work day go so much faster

))) Body Blow doesn't do deep wound because of Eviscerate, that is not a combo.
I already told you you can get body blow with cleave too, they do not rule out eachother.